Episode 001: Marianne Williamson

Ep.001 Marianne Williamson (1)
Episode 001
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Episode 001:
A Return to Love with Marianne Williamson

“The love that sets the world free is love for everyone and that’s how you find yourself.”

Marianne Williamson on the #IamMovement Podcast

Marianne Williamson is an internationally acclaimed lecturer, activist and author of four #1 New York Times bestselling books. She has been one of America’s most well known public voices for more than three decades.

In this unbelievably enlightening episode, presidential candidate Marianne Williamson informs us how to dominate fear and find our purpose through love. 

Whether we believe it or not, our life experience has programmed us to think a certain way and react accordingly. Marianne beautifully explains how we can reverse this programming.

Topics Covered:

01:08 – Marianne shared her story and how her career began.

06:40 – Her thoughts on why people stop being loving.

10:10 – What is the idea of spiritual work in people’s lives.

14:15 – How spiritual works matter in reshaping our perspective in life and how to work on it.

19:24 – The difference between clinically depressed and physically depressed.

23:15 – How to understand and navigate our lives to success and how to be compassionate.

28:55 – Her thought about forgiveness. 

31:31 – Marianne’s advice on how to start the day to be in a place of enlightenment.

Key Takeaways:

“Enlightenment is a shift from over-identification with the body to a new identification with the spirit.” – Marianne Williamson

“The spirit has no age, eternal and literally unaffected by the darkness of the world.” – Marianne Williamson 

“Suffering gives you x-ray vision into the suffering of others.” – Marianne Williamson

Enjoyed the Podcast? Be sure to subscribe on iTunes and leave a review. It means so much to hear your feedback and we’d love for you to help us spread the word!

You’ll Learn

Why it's important to be aware of your fears and how to deal with them

What love can do to impact your life and help you find your purpose

How to transform your inner being to achieve success in your life

And much more!


Note: some of the resources below may be affiliate links, meaning I get paid a commission (at no extra cost to you) if you use that link to make a purchase.


Intro: 00:01

Hi, I'm Rock Thomas, the founder of M1. The tribe of healthy, wealthy and passionate people, also known as fulfillionaires. You're listening to the I am movement podcast where we believe words that follow. I am following you. Join me in the world's greatest thought leaders as we discussed the power of transformation and making success a part of your identity.

Rock : 00:33

I'm super excited to introduce to you an amazing guest today, you are in for a treat. You know that um, we don't always have um multiple New York time best sellers on the call. But today I got to present Marianne Williamson to you. She is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, an activist. Six of her ten published books have been New York Times best-sellers and she is also on Oprah and Good Morning America, Charlie Rose and she's done uh ton of things in her life and it's um really an honor to have you on the call today Marianne, welcome

Marianne: 01:10

Oh, thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

Rock : 01:12

I have your beautiful new book in my hand and yet to me, I've started reading it. I'm enjoying it. But before we dive into what you're currently working on, I'd love to just go back and get a little background story because my experience, not many people don't believe that they can lead an epic life until they've heard the adversity that some other people have had to come over. So why don't you give us a little bit of a background on, on where you grew up in maybe some of the significant events in your life?

Marianne: 01:41

Well, I grew up in Houston, Texas and I did not graduate from college. I just couldn't find myself. I, it's interesting because I look back now and when I was in college, there wasn't all this conversation about add and all of those things. But I look back now and I think I have a little more clarity about why studying was often difficult for me and so forth. So I left college in my junior year and I pretty much wandered, I was a little bit of a hippie chick and I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life. And I wrote about this actually in my first book, a return to love. And in my twenties I started reading a set of books called The Course in Miracle. And I always been interested in spiritual topics. At that time. Everybody was reading the itching and Ram Dass book Be Here Now and you know, everybody was kind of into the spiritual stuff that was big like in the 1960s but I didn't know how to apply any of that to my own life really.

Marianne: 02:44

And I was pretty, I was pretty unhappy, unhappy in a way. I think a lot of people are in their, in their twenties. You don't know what you're going to do. Um, I think it's even more intense today. And I started reading these books and I felt that had found something that explained myself to me. And you know, the course in miracles does not claim to have a monopoly on truth. It's not like it's the only statement of truth. I, but I had read other things like the Seth books and other things, which had made me begin to understand how consciousness operates and how my thinking was creating my reality, but I didn't know what to do with that. So when I started reading the course in miracles, I became deeply, deeply, um passionate about them and my entire life began to change because it taught me that in any moment, if I, if I love the person in front of me and just reach across the wall, I had put in front of my own heart and see right relationship with other human beings and being, uh, a better person and a more loving person.

Marianne: 03:49

If that was my goal on any given day, miracles would happen in my life. Well, when I, several years later, I found myself living in, in Los Angeles and I was working, I'd had a bookstore and I was working at a place called the philosophical research society, and they asked me to start giving lectures on the course in miracles. And I think that this is really the point. The point is that I did not begin doing what I do from the perspective of thinking it was ever going to be a career. I just began doing it because it's, I couldn't imagine anything more wonderful than talking about these books that just it. And to this day, they're easy for me to enthuse about because what they do for me. So that's how my career began and not long into it. Um, not, not my career, but not long into my beginning to do the course and all of that.

Marianne: 04:43

I did have a personal tragedy in my life and a very, very difficult time. Definitely what would be called a, you know, nervous breakdown today. And because of my study of, of course in miracles because of my belief that a higher power does lift us up when we fall because of my belief that a higher power does give us new opportunities in any moment that we bring our thinking back to righteousness. And when we take responsibility for our mistakes, if tone for them forgive other people for theirs, that miracles do happen and that the universe always gives us the opportunity to begin again. And what came out of that actually was that then my, my career began. So in my life, I, I do not separate my spiritual devotion from my career goals. Um, my goal of my life is the goal of my career.

Marianne: 05:34

And that's how it might be used to spread love. I think if you're in science or you're an educator or you're a business person or you're in the medical field or you're a lawyer, I don't care what kind of business we're in. I think it should be the business of love. And if, if we stand forth in any system seeking to be more positive and impeccable and ethical and really ask how our product and our relationships with which we work might be of use and of service, then I think this just makes you more successful as a human being. And I think that out of that comes our professional success. And I'll tell you something, the times when, when I have failed professionally, I, I can see, I can go back and see the root cause, um, in myself. And then you dig deep. And sometimes that's very painful.

Marianne: 06:23

I've listened and I've, I've failed and I've succeeded in worldly terms. But the only real failure in life is a failure. You failed to learn from something you didn't learn from. That's the only real failure because life is always coming back around. You can read about, you know, any great business leader. These stories abound about people who use successes, who had their failures on the way. And if you learn from it, whether it's a personal failure or a professional failure, you've learned from it and you get back up and you, you be ready because the universe is going to bring you a new opportunity. That's just the way of of nature. And the point is, are you going to be now who you are not before. And that's how life works. So that's been my experience.

Rock : 07:06

Wow. That's a lot there. Set in one, one go. It makes me think Marianne, what stops people from being loving? I mean, I think at the end of the day we want to be that. Oh, but people don't, they're mean, they're angry, they're and frustrated. What do you think or is the thing that stops people from being loving day in and day out?

Marianne: 07:26

Well, you know, the mind is split in two and one part of the mind is, is in touch with the love that is the truth of who we are. And the other part of the mind is the spirit of fear by whatever name you call it. And that spirit of fear dominate to this world. And if you wake up in the morning and you go right away to the newspaper or to the computer and hear about all the terrible things happening in the world and you allow yourself all day, every day to be tempted and lured into the crazy thinking of fear and greed in domination and defensiveness and attack that dominates this world, you're at the effect of it and you are going to be depressed and are going to be anxious and good luck with that. But if we pray, if we meditate, if we put our dedication to love, whether that's through a spiritual or a secular dimension first and make that our bottom line, then we're not at the effect of all that fear.

Marianne: 08:20

And fear is what makes us angry. And fear is what makes us attack. And fear is what makes us defend. And there is another way to live. And that that's really the point of where it's going on today, that's the revolution in consciousness. There is another way and it affects every aspect of our lives. Absolutely. Not only including our professional life, but I think very, very powerfully our professional lives because it gives you that that added, it talks about a winner's edge. It gives you charisma, gives you leadership, it gives you that thing that people have when you know, boy, he or she, she serious about this. They'd be doing even if, if they weren't making a living doing it.

Rock : 08:57


Marianne: 08:58

That's a really power professionally man. I was doing what I was doing before I made a dollar and I still do it in some situations where there is no dollar to be made. And that's, that's, that's when you're dealing on a level that the universe responds to.

Rock : 09:11

So I'll take myself as an example. I grew up with divorced parents. My mother was a bit of a gypsy, never around, lost me at the shopping mall. I, you know, as a young child I appeared several times. Um, does she pick me up at the police department? Um, you know, six, seven years old, rather traumatic. My father was German, um, worked very adamantly, worked very hard at the farm. I would get injured beating up on my brothers and he would tell me to take care of myself by teaching to protect me at a young age. You have to protect me forever.

Rock : 09:44

I felt no emotion.

Marianne: 09:45

My God

Rock : 09:46

Yeah. It's all no emotional safety, no, no security as a child going up. Uh, it affected my self esteem. Fortunately I, I turned it around by becoming an overachiever as far as like you say, worldly success. But I've struggled in my relationships because there's this deep seated programming that I am not worthy, that I'm not enough. So then I would try to get the love from the women in my life and then what would happen is it would put too much of a demand on them and somewhere it would break down. You know, that's my particular story and other people have different versions of this. When you say toward, you know, I have a spiritual coach, I do some work around self love and just loving yourself from the days when I really do that good.

Rock : 10:28

I feel completely confident, completely grounded and it's almost like great things come to me and the days when I don't do that kind of grounding. I feel a little bit off kilter just because can you tell me about it a little bit.

Marianne: 10:40

Well first of all, this idea that spiritual work is about self love. It's such poppycock I can't even tell you. Spiritual love is not about self love. Spiritual love is about love of all sentient beings and that is the ultimately the only way to love self because your true self with a capital S is one with everyone. So as someone who's been in this field for so long, every time I hear somebody say my spiritual coach is working with me on self love, I want to say, what are we doing here? This, this is it. The love that sets the world free. It's not self love. This love that sets the world free is love for everyone. And that's how you find yourself because that's when you're in the true mode of who you are. Now from a spiritual perspective, in terms of everything that you say you are, you went through as a child.

Marianne: 11:28

And first thing I want to say is how, sorry I am. You know, the first therapist I ever had said to me, you know Marianne, your parents, your father is not your father. Your mother is not your mother. God's your father and God's your mother. And when we see ourselves in whatever language you use as children of God, your entire sense of being changes your mortal self was mother was mothered by this gypsy who was detached. Your mortal self was fathered by quite a cold, cold man. You're mortal. Self was beaten up by your brothers. But the spiritual point is that you are not your mortal self. And that's what enlightenment is. Enlightenment is a shift from over identification with the body to a new identification with the spirit. The spirit has no age. The spirit is eternal and the spirit is literally unaffected by the darkness of the world.

Marianne: 12:25

And so as you are, whatever you call it, reborn and spirit, as you begin to self-actualize and whatever you begin to identify with the part of yourself that was is perfect. No matter what you've done, the mistakes you've made have not changed your divine innocence and the real you was not affected by any of that. That doesn't mean you you deny the pain of it, but you work through that, through the grief, through the processing, to a point of realizing that in any given moment you are the shining light of God in the world and you know what? Suffering and, and that's what my book is about. Suffering gives you x-ray vision into the suffering of others. The fact that you suffered the way you did as a child can now the point is not have I suffered. The point is what was the meaning of my suffering?

Marianne: 13:14

How can I be a better person now? And you yourself, there's no way you do not have an exquisite sensitivity to, to children. The idea of children who are being neglected or children who are being abused. There is no way you don't have a kind of extra sense about people who've had a rough time in their lives and so that's how the universe compensates. The point is if I went through this sorrow, if I went through this pain, let it not have been in vain. Let me be more of a man now because I've, I've experienced these things and I know what life is like when it's hard, when it's not working for you. That's really what we want to do with our, with our painful past may, may it be something that actually helps construct in me a more powerful ability to be of service to other people. Now in a large part of which is that I'm sensitive to it. You know, if you, if you've been hurt as a child, then you have a sensitivity to the idea of a child being hurt in the way other people who are not hurt do not and that that's what we do with it. How can, how can I be even more, even more of a channel for love? Because I know what it's like to be denied that.

Rock : 14:29

Well, it makes me think of a two part question. One is there's some people that have been hurt and then they go out and hurt and do the very same thing that we've done to them.

Marianne: 14:39

That's exactly right.

Rock : 14:40

Oh, so what happens to their sensitivity around that and how can, how can that person be reshaped?

Marianne: 14:47

Well, that's why spiritual work matters so much. That's why it's so to process our pain and that's really what my book is about. It's called Tears To Triumph for that reason. You know that the tears must be cried and what you're describing is the danger inherent in neglecting the inner life. You're absolutely right. People who are abused as children often become abusers and that's because the pain just got just got so pressed down and then subconsciously that person is working from a place. If I take put this pain on someone else, maybe in that moment I won't feel it. And that's very dangerous and our prisons are filled with people. Actually who were, who committed violence, but who had had violence committed, uh, trend, you know, towards them, perpetrated against them when they were children. So this is why the spiritual work matters. The processing of these things, the, the surrender of these things to a higher power that can heal our hearts and transform our thoughts and transform our feelings and transform our behavior. And that's why anything less than the deep spiritual work doesn't do that. But like I said before, the spiritual work is not just self love. That's such as trendy a thing in the world today that, um, it's simply not what the spirit is about.

Rock : 16:09

So lets a unpack that a little bit because there's self talk that, that, you know, we tend to have maybe download it from our guardians of know, you're, you're stupid, you're too fat, you're lazy, you never really amount to anything. How do you, how do you go and love everything else when you have this recording in your head that you bought from someone?

Marianne: 16:29

Right, right.

Rock : 16:29

When people keep pressing.

Marianne: 16:33

Well right. So some people would say, if I just look at myself in the mirror and go, I love you, you're perfect as you are, that'll do it. I submit to you that it will not do it. But knowing that God created everyone perfect, it's all about re-identifying who we are. The Course of Miracle says that enlightenment is a shift from body identification to spirit identification. If if I want to just love myself, you know, I've made some real mistakes in my life and if, if, if I'm going to just love myself based on, well Marianne, have you done? I've done some things right, but you know what, I didn't do everything right. So if I'm just basing myself love on, on, you know, adding up where at Marianne got it right and where Marianne got it wrong, I don't know how I, how I think I'd be pretty down on myself.

Marianne: 17:24

But if I say God created you perfect, he created everyone perfect. You've made mistakes. So is everyone that is infinitely merciful. He does not judge us. He correct us. And if you atone for your mistakes and seek to be a better person now, that is what you love is based on, you know, the story of the prodigal son. How the father was more excited to see the son who left and came back. Then the son who never left. That is what self love is. It's love of the self with a capital S and to know if I'm, and you know, I experienced this, if I really atoned in my heart, dear God, I, you know, I really see, you know, in it the Catholics have confession. Jews have that holiest day of the year it's called Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. In AA, there's talk about the fearless moral inventory.

Marianne: 18:12

You have to face the exact nature of your wrongs. And I see it in my life quite a bit. If I have a toned, if I have owned my mistake, if I have made ammends, if I've made an apology where necessary, then at that point, anybody who wants to judge me, I'm not at the effect of that because I know that I'm doing my best. And I know that I, I'm a decent human being and that I can actually be better now. And that's self love itself. It, it comes with a level of self-acceptance. But if I haven't atone from my mistakes than even the self love business is kind of like, it's just kind of an, it's an iteration of a kind of narcissistic perspective. And like what is that?

Rock : 18:58 Hmmm. So

Marianne: 18:59

And I think especially in business because I know that your, your um, um, your, your audience, you know, a lot of conversations about business. You know, my, my, I think it's probably, I've made personal failures in properly equal quantity of professional failures, but I know what it's like to feel like, ah, I blew that or I lost that money or I blew that opportunity. Um, uh, this, this stuff applies there as much as to any other area.

Rock : 19:25

So, um, we have people who are, are living in emotions that are less than perhaps what they could be. There's a rainbow of emotions for a reason. But we do have a culture that seems to be addicted to depression or, you know, stuck in it somehow. Some people say that depression is something we do. It's a physiology. It's a question of focus. Do you believe there's a difference between some people that are, you know, that are maybe clinically or, or physically depressed versus some people that choose to focus on things that aren't working in their life and feel bad?

Marianne: 20:01

Well, I, you know, I don't think it's as simple as, Oh, just change your thoughts, you know, that's, and blaming someone for being sad. But I do think this, I think that we are being sold a story these days about clinical depression being about brain chemistry. I don't know that anyone who has been diagnosed, uh, as clinically depressed and subscribed and given a prescription for anti- depressants who had their brain chemistry a checked first, you know, the, the um, diagnosis of, of depression is not based on a blood test. There's no blood tests for depression like for leukemia or for diabetes. Diagnosis of depression is based on a questionnaire. Now I've looked at those questionnaires and I defy any of us to look at that and say, well, I haven't been there ever. I mean, all of us have had sleepless nights. All of us have had times when we couldn't eat times the times when we cried a lot, that that's, there is a spectrum of normal human despair.

Marianne: 21:01

And what we've done over the last few decades is they have medicalized normal human despair. And I think it is worth mentioning how many billions of dollars being made off this turning normal human despair into a profit center. I'm not talking about schizophrenia and bipolar. Those are serious mental disorders where the idea of psychotherapeutic drugs, it's obviously legitimate, but now there are people who are just going through a tough time who are told to have a depressive disorder or an anxiety disorder as far as an anxiety disorder is concerned. Who doesn't today, look what's happening on the planet? If you're not depressed by what's happening in the world today, maybe you're not looking. So I think that the fact that so many people are saddened by what's happening today is not a sign of a lack of mental health. It's a lack of it. It's actually a sign that we are mentally healthy.

Marianne: 21:54

And the fact that very sensitive people are upset today because of what's happening to the environment, that mentally, that people are upset today because of the stress of, of living under the economic burden of all this income inequality. The fact that you're upset about this doesn't mean something's wrong with you. It mean something's right with you. And that's why the idea of taking pills to numb our, our pain and our depression when most of the time that pain and depression is simply a product of the fact that we or the society in which we live is moving in a direction that needs to be seriously looked at. You know, psychic pain is like physical pain. It's therefore a reason. It conveys information. And if I have a broken leg, it's not enough to just take morphine. I have to reset the leg. And if I have psychic pain, it's not enough to just numb my pain.

Marianne: 22:44

I have to reset the thinking that either produced it or that keeps me on the wheel of suffering because I won't forgive somebody else. I have not yet forgiven someone else for what they did. So this idea, you know, some people have come up with this kind of artificial, you know, if you cry this many tears, it's normal. But if you cry over that, then maybe you need something, you need treatment, you need medication. And I think that's very, very dangerous. We talk all the time about the genius of the body. Well, if the body is such a genius, why are we doubting how many tears it needs to cry? If you have 45 tears to cry, crying for 17 of them is not enough. So I, I think that the fact that some that you've been down, you know, Abraham Lincoln was known for for what was called at that time, melancholy, melancholia.

Marianne: 23:37

And I think some of the people who are the most successful in business, in any other area are successful because they feel deeply what it means to be human. That's what makes it successful business. It has the mark of your deep humanity on it. And if you're going to play life big, and also there's something else there, and I've seen this in my own life. If you're going to play big, then your chances of failure are greater. You know what I mean? Cause if you, if you go for big you, they're going to risk falling big. You know what I'm saying? So if you're going to live a passion alive, you know it's not always going to be safe. But you get to a point where you fear more living a small life, been going for big. And if you go for big, you're gonna fall down sometimes.

Marianne: 24:17

And that's why I wrote the book. Because if you don't know how to navigate the, the trouble times in life, you don't really know how to navigate life. And if you're going to try to be big in your career, expect sometimes it's not gonna go the way you want. That's took success it's not guaranteed in any area of life. It's guaranteed in the sense that if you learn from it and if you learn to get yourself back up and get yourself back in the game and become more humble because of it and more, more live a more meaningful in a more meaningful way because of that, then even that was a success.

Rock : 24:50

So that makes me, I should, if that's true, because we have a saying in our group called grabbed life space.

Marianne: 24:56

Yeah, exactly. If you're gonna grab it big,

Rock : 24:58

Right. So then it makes me think that might be emotional abilities cause I don't want to not feel, I don't want to numb the feeling of disappointment or pain. It's almost like, Oh, okay. Oh that was. Oh that, that still didn't work out.

Rock : 25:12

Wow. And then take that energy and redirect it somehow or feel it. Experience it. Well, I don't feel the highs and lows, but it feels like the low's can just really, Oh, they just drain you.

Marianne: 25:24

Yeah. Well they do.

Rock : 25:26


Marianne: 25:26

Welcome to life. Yeah. But we need to stop being so afraid of that.

Rock : 25:33


Marianne: 25:33

We need to stop being so afraid of that. Being depressed is exhausting. Absolutely. It drains you. You know, I ran for Congress a couple of years ago and well I lost, well let me tell you something. It's a public failure. It's very, you know, everybody can see it. Uh, you, you, a lot of people sent money to help you. So you feel bad because even though you know, nobody knows for sure that, you know, a political donation is gonna go to a winning candidate. You, you don't want to let people down. You know, I lost a lot of my own money. Yeah. And did I have to be depressed afterwards for a while? Absolutely I did. But you know what, I'm now at a point two years out, I can talk about it.

Marianne: 26:13

I can, I can hopefully share from the places where I learned something that might be a value. So yeah, I was, I drained. Was I exhausted? Was I really down in that Valley? Yeah. But you know what, had to go through it and then, and then the universe lifts you up to some higher place. So, so yeah, I think that's part of the conversation of playing big. And also if you have a group, I think the beauty of that kind of a support is we will be there for each other when it doesn't go well.

Rock : 26:44

Yes. Yeah, definitely. We do have that for sure.

Marianne: 26:47

You know, we need to support each other. Not only, Hey man, you made it. I'm so happy for you. But also, Hey man, I'm sorry that didn't go well.

Rock : 26:54


Marianne: 26:54

I mean the, the support I got from people after my campaign in the form of I'm so sorry, was as meaningful to me as the help I got from people during my campaign as volunteers.

Rock : 27:04

I have a two part question for you. Um, I find at times, you know, my kids can injure themselves or um, you know, they had a rough day and the first tendency is to give them the same thing I was Delta all the time, which just suck it up, get over it. I don't want to do that. But sometimes I feel like I just don't care. Like, come on, get over it.

Rock : 27:24

Yeah. Any thoughts on how do you, how do you develop your compassion? There's times times I'm very compassionate. You're right. There's certain things I can cry at a movie and I can, I feel for people and, but there's other things where I have very little compassion. What are your thoughts around that?

Marianne: 27:38

Well, I've, I think the closer we grow to God, God is love and we want to always be compassionate. But I'm also a parent. So the part of the art of parenting is never to withhold your compassion. But sometimes as parents we are performing a higher function by refusing to get enrolled. You know, the course in miracles says, um, empathy does not mean to join in suffering. So I think the art of parenting is to show compassion, but not necessarily, I mean, too many people protect their children these days from every little bruise of the spirit. And I think part of parenting is teaching my daughter how to, uh, to handle those moments. Not as in suck it up but, and deal with it gracefully, process it, but don't self indulge, talk about it, but don't spew. I mean it's all, and that's in the book. That's a large part of it. How do you stand in a mindful, graceful place in the midst of your own pain and the pain of those that you love? Are you married?

Rock : 28:42

Currently, Not I have been.

Marianne: 28:44

But you do have, you obviously you co-parent with someone?

Rock : 28:47

Well the kids growing up now they're 21 to 24.

Marianne: 28:50

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, my daughter's 26 too. Yeah. No, I think compassion from a parent is very, and also do you have a son and a daughter or

Rock : 28:58

Yes. Two girls and a boy.

Marianne: 29:00

Yeah. Well, with the son, you know, you don't want to be, you know, teaching our boys that they can't cry. But there is a level of respect that we, that we show for, for males that that is not an emotional coddling. We have too much emotional coddling in our society. We don't have enough compassion, but we do have too much emotional coddling. And there's a difference.

Rock : 29:22

Are you talk about forgiveness in your book and I think that's a very powerful practice or conversation. I'd like to hear your perspective on that.

Marianne: 29:30

Well, forgiveness is everything because miracles occur naturally as expressions of love. And when I fail to forgive you, I was hold my love. So if I'm withholding my love from you, the way consciousness operates is whatever I'm thinking about you, I am that thought is effecting me. That and that right there is huge. Whatever thought I'm thinking about you, it is affecting me. So if I'm attacking you, I'm actually attacking myself. And if I withhold love from you, I'm withholding love from myself. If I fail to forgive you for what you did to me, I will continue to be at the affect of what you did to me. So the only way I can free me of that hook is to free you, let you off the hook. And that's the only way you can go forward in life. You know, if you can't remain bitter and see yourself as a victim and be happy, and that really becomes a decision.

Marianne: 30:25

Do I wish to be happy? And if you're not happy, you're gonna have a harder time being successful in any area, in relationships or personal or professional, because you have a cramped kind of energy, a bitter kind of negative energy. Who wants to help you, who wants to work with you? You know, people like to be with, you know, we have this idea. If I have the right resume, I'll get the job and all of that. But ultimately there's always going to be someone with a resume as good as yours. There's always going to be someone with a success record as good as yours. Ultimately in the final analysis, whether it's people investing in you or people promoting you or people hiring you or people buying from you, at a certain level, it's going to be because of the feeling that they get from you, what their gut says about you. And if you're coming from a place where you haven't processed your own stuff and unforgiveness is a, is a, is a huge, unprocessed lump in the middle of your psyche and it will you, you are basically saying that other person does not deserve to win and whatever your belief is about other people is your deep subconscious imprint about yourself. If I don't think other people deserve to win at the deepest level, I'm programming myself to not allow me to win.

Rock : 31:38

Wow. That is intense. As intense it's like a drinking the poison yourself.

Marianne: 31:43

Exactly. That's what it is. What do they say it not forgiving is like giving the other person poison right. I think it was Deepak or Wayne or one of the people said that.

Rock : 31:52

Somebody like that. Yeah. So if they're a practice, like as we, as we end up this call or this some things people can do, they're going to get your book. Of course. Well, there's some things that they can do that you would recommend maybe a daily or weekly practice that can allow them to get closer to, to connecting with, you know, love God's spirit, whatever word people put on it and be in that place where, um, they have a higher sense of enlightenment.

Marianne: 32:18

Every morning spend five minutes, close your eyes and think of all the people that you're going to be around today and think of not only the people that you're going to be around, but the people that you don't even know yet that you're going to be around and just send your love before you and just balanced spirit. And it's amazing because you'll realize how much love you've been withholding from your employer, from employees, from your, from your colleagues, from your associates, and you realize that every bit of love you send out is success. Love is the success vibration. And all of this obviously goes on on a silent level. You don't tell anybody this, but within your own mind and with your inner eye, see that person, balance spirits send them love and particularly send love to the people that you don't like. And an amazing, the difference will begin to take place in your personality.

Marianne: 33:07

People subconsciously know everything. When people are being loved by you, they feel it, it attracts them. I remember when I had a bookstore many years ago and they had a reps book reps who would come and visit and there was this one man, I don't remember what publisher he worked for and you know, they come and they visit with you and they go through the catalog and I'm sure all this is online now, but, and they would show, you know, the books that are coming out. And I remember, I just loved it when that guy came, he was just so positive and he was so enthusiastic and they loved those books and it all translated well of course I bought more from him. Hello?!

Rock : 33:44


Marianne: 33:44

Can't fake that either.

Rock : 33:47

No and I'm a big believer that you know, you don't achieve to be happy, you happily achieving.

Marianne: 33:52

That's right. Exactly

Rock : 33:54

Right. I'm being grateful in those, seeing those things that matter. Do you go into that better place, that better energy, that better states and you attract better things and then one thing leads to the next.

Marianne: 34:05

That's right. And also then, whether you know, whether this was an immediate success today or not, doesn't become, it's not the hook on what you hang your self esteem. It's that you lived, you lived a decent life today. There's a, there's an old line in, in metaphysics, virtue is its own reward. And um, our, our, our sense of self esteem and self love and excelled acceptance and even happiness begins to rest on, on our own impeccability and the fact that I know I live a decent life today and somebody somewhere things were a little better for them because something that I did. And when, when that's what you start to, to lay your foundation, then everything will unfold from there.

Rock : 34:45

Wow. That's beautiful. I love that projecting the love and silently projecting the love of the people you're going to meet and the people that you don't even know that you're willing to meet and having that as a daily practice. That's a beautiful, beautiful.

Marianne: 34:58

You do that five minutes every morning and within 30 days you will have a transformed life.

Rock : 35:03

Wow. That's awesome. That's fantastic. I'm excited. So if obviously people didn't order your book online, is there anything else that, um, they should know about you if they want to follow you or anything like that? What can they do?

Marianne: 35:17

Well, this book is called Tears to Triumph, the spiritual journey from suffering to enlightenment. Um, I have other books. My first one was called a Return to Love, which is the basics of this kind of thinking in a way. My website is called M. A. R. I, A N, N, E. I give weekly talks are live streams for free. And uh, all of that's on and people can get my book on Amazon or Barnes and and he's a places or bookstores. Any of the places where you buy books that, uh, Marianne Williamson and to Tears to Triumph.

Rock : 35:51

Well, you know, we have a group of people who are striving to grab like big, live, bigger, but at the same time to succeed culturally in this world, but at the same time, not at the price of their relationships or of their health. Um, I don't believe people are imbalanced. I believe we're all at an out of balance though we're counter balancing and this is certainly a great, great conversation for us to take a dive into our own personal happiness and in order to learn how to adapt a little bit and deal with incredible rainbow of emotions we all live in. So I thank you for your insight and I thank you for doing that work that allows you to so effortlessly answer my questions today that gives insight.

Marianne: 36:32

Thank you.

Outro: 36:33

This is the #IAmMovement podcast. To find out more about how you can join the #IAmMovement and take your life to the next level, go to GO M1 dot com,

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